mail

Author Topic: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped  (Read 5091 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline priya

  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1130
  • Thumbs Up 125
Re: Eagle keep eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 08:04:33 AM »
Hi Zoro,  Priya here this time.  Ward asked me to post the following diagram to help show how to test ball joints.

As well, when you go to get a wheel alignment try to find a body shop that does wheel alignments and has a 4 wheel computerized  alignment machine.   A wheel alignment technitian at a body shop sees all kind of alignment problems due to bent parts and so on and is more experienced at figuring out problems due to bent parts/collision damage.  This is how Ward learned wheel alignments and automotive repair shops and dealers from around the city bring him cars for wheel alignment they can't figure out as he is known to be one of the best around for sorting out troublesome issues.


Offline Zoro

  • Eagle Sport
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Thumbs Up 27
Re: Eagle keep eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 08:42:37 AM »
Clear as mud, eh? If you have these readings let Priya know, I'll gladly tell
you what I see. -Ward-  ;D

Ward-
That actually makes a lot of sense. It's going to be a few weeks before I can get the Eagle over to the alignment folks but when I do I will post the readout up in this thread. Thanks for the info!
84 Eagle Wagon aka 'Zoro II'
228,000 miles and counting!

Offline Zoro

  • Eagle Sport
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Thumbs Up 27
Re: Eagle keep eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 08:46:06 AM »
Hi Zoro,  Priya here this time.  Ward asked me to post the following diagram to help show how to test ball joints.

I will take a peek, thanks!
84 Eagle Wagon aka 'Zoro II'
228,000 miles and counting!

Offline Zoro

  • Eagle Sport
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Thumbs Up 27
Re: Eagle keep eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 01:03:04 PM »
So you guys can get a feel of what I'm talking about here's the tires, I had to take the RF off the car for safety reasons.

RF


LF


RR


LR
84 Eagle Wagon aka 'Zoro II'
228,000 miles and counting!

Offline carnuck

  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ********
  • Posts: 1747
  • Thumbs Up 55
  • Near Seattle
    • Virtual Jeep
Re: Eagle keep eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 01:09:30 PM »
Looks like a combo of too much negative camber and under inflation. Shop probably aligned it to front wheel drive specs.
FOR SALE
'87 Comanche 4.0L AW4/NP242 3.73 gears, lifted 5" on near new 33" tires $3500 obo
'82 Eagle Wagon (Brown Betty) 4.2L/727/NP229 and soon 8.25 rear axle and non-vacuum 3.08 front to match. 235/75/15 tires. It's down to minor body work (someone creamed my driver's door but I have another in good shape) almost rust free and interior work (seats are worn and carpet torn). $2000 but about to go up due to more work being done.

Pics of my other for sale stuff http://tinyurl.com/jimsclads

Offline priya

  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1130
  • Thumbs Up 125
Re: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 09:47:43 PM »
Hello Zoro! So if you run your hand side to side across that tire does it have a sawtooth wear pattern? (Smooth
sliding one way, lots of ridges the other way) -Ward-

Offline Zoro

  • Eagle Sport
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Thumbs Up 27
Re: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 10:04:14 PM »
Hello Zoro! So if you run your hand side to side across that tire does it have a sawtooth wear pattern? (Smooth
sliding one way, lots of ridges the other way) -Ward-

I guess you could say that. It was more noticeable when there was a lot more meat on the tire.
84 Eagle Wagon aka 'Zoro II'
228,000 miles and counting!

Offline carguy87

  • Eagle DL
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Thumbs Up 11
Re: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2012, 10:32:17 AM »
Looks like they didn't match the measurements for Turning from one side to the other.

Offline Zoro

  • Eagle Sport
  • ****
  • Posts: 420
  • Thumbs Up 27
Re: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2012, 01:45:50 PM »
Here's a question I've always wondered about alignments and it definitely pertains to this car. When doing an alignment can it be done with worn out tires or do the tires need to be brand new to get the most out of the alignment? Basically, if an alignment is done with worn tires will that throw it off?
84 Eagle Wagon aka 'Zoro II'
228,000 miles and counting!

Offline eaglebeek

  • Eagle Limited
  • *****
  • Posts: 640
  • Thumbs Up 53
Re: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2012, 02:00:18 PM »
I'll defer to Priya's husband Ward for the final answer, but here's my 2-cents-worth. I am a mechanic but my experience is on trucks and buses. Alignment is measurement and adjustment of angles. Yes, we're talking about angles of 2 degrees, but nonetheless they're angles. Measurements are taken against a reference point, either true vertical or horizontal, or a reference point on the vehicle chassis. Unless a tire is on a bent wheel the condition of the tire is not as important as the condition of the chassis. I see no reason why a good technician cannot perform a quality alignment regardless of the condition of the tires so long as the chassis is straight and components aren't loose or bent. :eagle:
1984 Eagle Wagon, 258, auto, 2.73 gears, daily driver
1983 Eagle Limited Wagon, new arrival from way up north
2000 Jeep Cherokee, 4.0, auto
2007 Hyundai Accent, radical downsize from minivan, wife's car and she loves it!

"The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."--John W. Gardner, in "Excellence: Can We Be Equal and Excellent Too?" (1961)
 
Air-conditioning is so cool!

Offline recomer

  • Moderators
  • Eagle DL
  • *****
  • Posts: 206
  • Thumbs Up 11
Re: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2012, 02:04:43 PM »
I'll defer to Priya's husband Ward for the final answer, but here's my 2-cents-worth. I am a mechanic but my experience is on trucks and buses. Alignment is measurement and adjustment of angles. Yes, we're talking about angles of 2 degrees, but nonetheless they're angles. Measurements are taken against a reference point, either true vertical or horizontal, or a reference point on the vehicle chassis. Unless a tire is on a bent wheel the condition of the tire is not as important as the condition of the chassis. I see no reason why a good technician cannot perform a quality alignment regardless of the condition of the tires so long as the chassis is straight and components aren't loose or bent. :eagle:

Thats what I was thinking too as when they aligned my wifes car, the things they clipped to the wheels (not sure what they are called) for reference points were on the wheels, not the tires.
83 Eagle Wagon

Offline priya

  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1130
  • Thumbs Up 125
Re: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2012, 11:04:52 PM »
I agree fully with Eaglebeek and Recomer. The alignment heads that gather the data clip to the wheels, not the tires. The
alignment machines I have used have always had some form of runout compensation, so even bent rims are accounted for and not an issue unless the rim bent beyond the point of compensation, at which point the alignment machine warns you. The alignment machine I currently operate measures to 1/100th of a degree.
 I frequently have customers come in that wish to do their own work, and I always recommend they replace the parts, then bring it in with the old tires on, as long as the tires are the same size side to side. the tires can even be different front to back, so long as the side to side rule is followed on each axle. After suspension componenents are replaced the toe can be out, sometimes by a signifigant amount. I have had customers put on new tires after replacing the struts, and by the time he got to my shop (40 miles) his new tires were totally shot, the belts were showing through. Much much better to do this to the old tires. -Ward-

Offline carguy87

  • Eagle DL
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Thumbs Up 11
Re: Eagle keeps eating thru front tires, multiple alignments haven't helped
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2012, 01:07:37 PM »
Doing an alignment can be affected by many things.  Worn bushings, saggy springs, extra weight in the vehicle, empty tank of gas, and bad tires.  I will reference these on an Eagle.  Soft coil springs or leaf springs will allow one side of the vehicle to drop causing a change in the camber and caster on both sides, positive on one side, negative on the other.  Too much weight in the vehicle, say you have 5 bags of water softener salt in your trunk when you get it aligned, will actually change the height of your front end, in turn changing caster, camber, and toe.  If you get it aligned like this, when you take the weight out for normal driving, you measurements can become out of specifications.  Fuel can do this too, at 6-7lbs a gallon, you can have 140 extra or less lbs. in your rear.  Most alignment techs prefer you to have a normal load in your car, nothing you wouldn't carry every day, and about a half tank of gas.  Tires, quite controversial, but still have an affect.  I have done many tests and found this to be about .5 degree at most, but that .5 degree can change a wheel that doesn't return after turns, to a wheel that returns like it should.  You generally want to have a pair of EVENLY matched tires on both axles.  Front to back can be off slightly from what the manufacturer suggests, but your side to side have to be the same size, same brand preferred, as not all 235/75/15 tires are actually the same width or height from one brand to the other.  The problems come when you have two mismatched tires; different heights, different tread design(winter vs. all-weather), and one new tire and one used tire with belt showing. 

The most commonly overlooked item, and one of the most important, is TIRE PRESSURE.  All tires should be filled to the recommended specs, or your preferred specs.

 

Will a column out of an 87-91 Jeep Cherokee fit an 88 Eagle?

Started by NoCoEagle

Replies: 3
Views: 1053
Last post September 17, 2011, 04:21:59 PM
by thereverendbill
Rear Sway Bar for Eagle

Started by Whuntmore

Replies: 5
Views: 1620
Last post March 24, 2012, 01:49:07 PM
by carnuck
what jeep wheels to fit a 85 amc eagle?

Started by kalve

Replies: 6
Views: 2932
Last post June 18, 2013, 12:37:11 AM
by carnuck
Suspension for 85 Eagle wagon

Started by kalve

Replies: 11
Views: 2398
Last post June 15, 2013, 08:08:59 PM
by Zoro
Pictures of my Eagle on 17s

Started by johnbendik

Replies: 8
Views: 1685
Last post April 14, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
by maximus7001