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Author Topic: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark  (Read 6682 times)

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Offline BenM

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2013, 07:46:54 PM »
You definitely need a basic multimeter...

There are two important measurements, between the + and the -, which is 1.25 ohms plus or minus for coils designed to use an internal resistor and 3 ohms for coils designed to not use an internal resistor.

The resistance between the + and the tower connector should be around 10,000 ohms, but should not be 0 and should not be infinite. It will usually vary between 800 and 1400 but may be different with a high performance coil.

The color of the wires on the module are different than the harness, I was speaking of the harness. The colors are from the '83 TSM, which ought to be correct for '84.

What wires do you have connected to where that connector should have been?

Also, use the OHM function to check continuity between the connector and the coil on the green wire. It should be less than one ohm.

Did you bypass the computer?
NSS#47184

1987 AMC Eagle Sedan -- 1976 Pacer Coupe -- 1968 Pontiac Tempest Custom S -- 1940 Mercury (& a 2002 Jetta Turbodiesel, 5 spd., the Wife's Daily Driver)

Offline BenM

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2013, 07:56:05 PM »
The blue box ignition is not designed for full voltage to the coil, however the red box is. The difficulty would be the red box would not work until the start circuit is reconnected, and I'm not entirely sure an aftermarket blue box would work without the start circuit. Did you use a cheap ICM or an old stock ICM?
NSS#47184

1987 AMC Eagle Sedan -- 1976 Pacer Coupe -- 1968 Pontiac Tempest Custom S -- 1940 Mercury (& a 2002 Jetta Turbodiesel, 5 spd., the Wife's Daily Driver)

Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2013, 12:05:13 AM »
You definitely need a basic multimeter...

There are two important measurements, between the + and the -, which is 1.25 ohms plus or minus for coils designed to use an internal resistor and 3 ohms for coils designed to not use an internal resistor.

The resistance between the + and the tower connector should be around 10,000 ohms, but should not be 0 and should not be infinite. It will usually vary between 800 and 1400 but may be different with a high performance coil.

The color of the wires on the module are different than the harness, I was speaking of the harness. The colors are from the '83 TSM, which ought to be correct for '84.

What wires do you have connected to where that connector should have been?

Also, use the OHM function to check continuity between the connector and the coil on the green wire. It should be less than one ohm.

Did you bypass the computer?

I have a multimeter, I just Never really did anything with Ohms before, I know what they are and how to test them, but didnt know exactly where to on the car. Now I do  ::) 

Ill look at the harness tomorrow, I must of been looking at the ICM wires.


The two prong connector, Has two wires the yellow wire from the Ignition switch, Is cut and spliced directly to the coil, Because thats what it was telling me to do in the MIU upgrade.  But maybe I did that wrong, now as I go back and look at the directions again.

what do you mean by red box and blue box?

And IDK if the computer is bypassed or not. i bought the car two years ago.

Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2013, 12:08:04 AM »
Instead of splicing that wire into the yellow wire. I CUT that wire, so maybe now my ICM is not getting any power. ILL have to check that out.

Offline BenM

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2013, 04:20:00 PM »
There are around a half dozen DuraSpark ICMs. They are identified by the color of their grommet where the wires meet the case as well as part numbers.

There are at least Black, Green, Blue, Red, and two Yellows. They all (may) have slightly different connectors. One version of the Yellow box had three connectors.

AMC used the three-connector Yellow box in 1982, all other years used the Blue box.

Ford used a red box on CA cars and some others for many years. It used a coil without a resistor to reduce the chance of misfire, it could produce a hotter spark. It achieved this with a change to its internal electronics where it measured coil saturation and could limit current rather than using a resistor wire to limit current to the coil. (Notice I didn't mention Voltage anywhere.)

The Red box included a safety feature, if the engine stalled out the box would shut down until it received a start signal. This way the engine couldn't fire up if it were accidentally left in Run.

The Blue box didn't initially include this feature, but I can make no promises it wasn't included in later part numbers, nor can I say that any aftermarket box doesn't do this. Ford did make changes to parts as they were being made and changed part numbers slightly to reflect this.

In any case no stock vehicle would ever care and few would consider this a design flaw.

Incidentally, the yellow box used the third connector to allow the computer to retard spark instead of the later method of the computer pretending to be the distributor and sending the timing signal to the ICM. If that third connector is shorted it should act just like a Blue box.
NSS#47184

1987 AMC Eagle Sedan -- 1976 Pacer Coupe -- 1968 Pontiac Tempest Custom S -- 1940 Mercury (& a 2002 Jetta Turbodiesel, 5 spd., the Wife's Daily Driver)

Offline BenM

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2013, 04:26:27 PM »
If the computer is controlling the spark, you have to use manifold vacuum or the Eagle will not idle properly. If the computer is not you need ported vacuum.

The easy way to check is to look down the carburetor throat and turn the ignition from off to run. You should see the stepper initialize.
NSS#47184

1987 AMC Eagle Sedan -- 1976 Pacer Coupe -- 1968 Pontiac Tempest Custom S -- 1940 Mercury (& a 2002 Jetta Turbodiesel, 5 spd., the Wife's Daily Driver)

Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2013, 08:29:10 PM »
Wow, thanks for all that information about ICMs, I just bought a cheap one from autozone. Idk what it is off the top of my head, Ill check. Ill check about that computer as well, The car always Idled funny, I used the screw that keeps the car from "dieseling" to keep a steady idle, I do not think the computer does anything, Because im pretty sure the jets, stay full rich at all times. Ill take pics of that was well, theres vaccuum hoses plugged with screws and what not on that.  But granted the car was drove from florida to California to NY before I bought it. so It couldnt be TO bad.

Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2013, 08:52:43 PM »
ITS ALIVE!!! that was it. that wire I cut and not spliced! thank you so much for making me think about what I was doing! It started right up and ran perfect! I dont even think the timing needs adjusting!

Now All I have to do is line that stupid shifter up so Park is on P and Reverse Is on R and so on. Reverse is on P ATM.

Offline eaglebeek

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2013, 10:13:20 PM »
ITS ALIVE!!! that was it. that wire I cut and not spliced! thank you so much for making me think about what I was doing! It started right up and ran perfect! I dont even think the timing needs adjusting!

Now All I have to do is line that stupid shifter up so Park is on P and Reverse Is on R and so on. Reverse is on P ATM.

Good job :occasion14: :eagle:
1984 Eagle Wagon, 258, auto, 2.73 gears, daily driver
1983 Eagle Limited Wagon, new arrival from way up north
2000 Jeep Cherokee, 4.0, auto
2007 Hyundai Accent, radical downsize from minivan, wife's car and she loves it!

"The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."--John W. Gardner, in "Excellence: Can We Be Equal and Excellent Too?" (1961)
 
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Offline vangremlin

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2013, 10:34:22 PM »
Great news!
1981 Kammback 258 - "Pepe"
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Offline BenM

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2013, 11:05:21 AM »
Good to hear.
NSS#47184

1987 AMC Eagle Sedan -- 1976 Pacer Coupe -- 1968 Pontiac Tempest Custom S -- 1940 Mercury (& a 2002 Jetta Turbodiesel, 5 spd., the Wife's Daily Driver)

Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2013, 08:43:35 AM »
One more thing, its off topic, but Starting a whole new topic for this makes no sense.

I filled up the tranny with fluid, now how the heck do you tell how much fluid is in there. When I drop the dipstick in and take it back out, it seems like its "wet" but there isnt a "line" of fluid like the oil. it looks almost clear on the dip stick. Ill grab a pic of it if you dont believe me.   :P

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2013, 11:50:35 AM »
Put it on a paper towel to get a measurement of sorts

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Offline greymarooneightytwo

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2013, 12:26:59 PM »
I recently ran into an issue where I couldn't go into park because, I thought, that the shift linkage was misaligned somewhere... Turns out  the cable that runs from the button on the shifter and downward was so badly worn and stretched that it was no longer lifting the little stopper block high enough to get past the "r" notch.... might check that out as well.

Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: at wits end, Please help. after ignition upgrade, not starting no spark
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2013, 08:22:11 AM »
my shifter needs a complete overhaul anyways, It doesnt click anymore, it just slides. Its working for now, but I have to make sure its fully in gear.

 

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