Author Topic: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?  (Read 2288 times)

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Offline 1982AMCCONCORD

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My 904 trans is about to give up the goat. Is there any other trans besides the ever popular 904/727 model that I can use on the 258 engine in my 2wd Concord? I was thinking it sure would be nice to have a 4spd like the jeep 42RE or similar. If its possible... I want to stay with the stock trans mounts and not get too carried away. If not then I will stick with the model I got... I just want to get off the line in a more reasonable fashion. Not going to make any drag races with this old Concord but I want the shifts to be snappy and not so lethargic as they are now.

Thanks!

JB

Offline carnuck

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2012, 10:50:45 PM »
AW4 swaps are common too. Trans mount is different and you need to do a bit of wiring/engineering since the trans is computer controlled.
FOR SALE
'87 Comanche 4.0L AW4/NP242 3.73 gears, lifted 5" on near new 33" tires $3500 obo
'82 Eagle Wagon (Brown Betty) 4.2L/727/NP229 and soon 8.25 rear axle and non-vacuum 3.08 front to match. 235/75/15 tires. It's down to minor body work (someone creamed my driver's door but I have another in good shape) almost rust free and interior work (seats are worn and carpet torn). $2000 but about to go up due to more work being done.

Pics of my other for sale stuff http://tinyurl.com/jimsclads

Offline 1982AMCCONCORD

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 02:37:12 PM »
Have you seen anyone do this Carnuck?

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 03:01:55 PM »
I have

Current amc's
82 concord waggy 258 DD
84 eagle sedan stroker DD
86 eagle wagon sas 304 v8 toy
87 eagle wagon stroker

Manitowoc WI

Offline 1982AMCCONCORD

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2012, 07:04:36 PM »
I have

I take it you have a carb'd engine right? How did you use the electronic trans with a carb'd engine?

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2012, 08:20:39 PM »
I have

I take it you have a carb'd engine right? How did you use the electronic trans with a carb'd engine?
The AW4 uses it's own computer and gets most of it's info from sensors in the transmission. The only thing it needs from the engine is a TPS signal. You can fab up a mount to run a TPS off of a carb. http://theamcforum.com/forum/aw4-conversion-by-rick-sc397_topic15549.html
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Offline carnuck

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2012, 11:34:17 PM »
Tom from the AMC forum has done it (I sold him my 2wd AW4 and AX-15 that he put into his Hornets)
FOR SALE
'87 Comanche 4.0L AW4/NP242 3.73 gears, lifted 5" on near new 33" tires $3500 obo
'82 Eagle Wagon (Brown Betty) 4.2L/727/NP229 and soon 8.25 rear axle and non-vacuum 3.08 front to match. 235/75/15 tires. It's down to minor body work (someone creamed my driver's door but I have another in good shape) almost rust free and interior work (seats are worn and carpet torn). $2000 but about to go up due to more work being done.

Pics of my other for sale stuff http://tinyurl.com/jimsclads

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 05:01:38 AM »
Mine will never really see the street. i went with switces to manually shift it.

Current amc's
82 concord waggy 258 DD
84 eagle sedan stroker DD
86 eagle wagon sas 304 v8 toy
87 eagle wagon stroker

Manitowoc WI

Offline shaggimo

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 10:55:06 AM »
My carbed 4.0 cherokee is backed by an aw4.
88 xj cherokee- ((4)(4))2
81 malibu 4dr- Identity Crisis
81 SX4- gf's
84 Eagle 4dr sedan- it followed me home... ::)
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Offline 1982AMCCONCORD

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2012, 01:42:21 PM »
I have

I take it you have a carb'd engine right? How did you use the electronic trans with a carb'd engine?
The AW4 uses it's own computer and gets most of it's info from sensors in the transmission. The only thing it needs from the engine is a TPS signal. You can fab up a mount to run a TPS off of a carb. http://theamcforum.com/forum/aw4-conversion-by-rick-sc397_topic15549.html

Wow.. that seems like a lot of work... I LIKE the part where he said he is getting 28MPG out of a 304 though!!! That is amazing! I love it! Imagine what a 6 cyl. would get!!!

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2012, 02:21:44 PM »
My carbed 4.0 cherokee is backed by an aw4.
Do you care to share a pic of how you mounted your TPS? Also, I think I figured out all the wiring except for 2 coming out of the transmission range sensor. I can't figure out where the wires on the connector circled in red, in positions A and E are supposed to go.


I have

I take it you have a carb'd engine right? How did you use the electronic trans with a carb'd engine?
The AW4 uses it's own computer and gets most of it's info from sensors in the transmission. The only thing it needs from the engine is a TPS signal. You can fab up a mount to run a TPS off of a carb. http://theamcforum.com/forum/aw4-conversion-by-rick-sc397_topic15549.html

Wow.. that seems like a lot of work... I LIKE the part where he said he is getting 28MPG out of a 304 though!!! That is amazing! I love it! Imagine what a 6 cyl. would get!!!
Actually, it's not that too difficult, especially on a 2wd.
"I know he'd be a poorer man if he never saw an eagle fly,
Rocky mountain high"  John Denver
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Offline shaggimo

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 02:47:55 PM »
My carbed 4.0 cherokee is backed by an aw4.
Do you care to share a pic of how you mounted your TPS?

My set up is rather moot for anyone here, unless they are running an Offy with a Quadrajet, lol, but, if it may help spark an idea here you go (all home made bracketry).


That's the bracket alone, below finished product, with linkage, and sensor.






88 xj cherokee- ((4)(4))2
81 malibu 4dr- Identity Crisis
81 SX4- gf's
84 Eagle 4dr sedan- it followed me home... ::)
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Oldsmoletic
CNY

Offline shaggimo

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 03:35:57 PM »
I think I figured out all the wiring except for 2 coming out of the transmission range sensor. I can't figure out where the wires on the connector circled in red, in positions A and E are supposed to go.

Had to study the diagram for a few, I think I'm lookin at the tps connectors, correct? The two wires you have selected appear to be for manual trans equipped only. On the renix systems there is two connectors for the tps, for our uses being carbs, we only need to worry about the one connector, the other feeds back to the ecm.  That diagram is kinda confusing, I'll see if I can dig up the ones I used when I eliminated the ecm form the system.
88 xj cherokee- ((4)(4))2
81 malibu 4dr- Identity Crisis
81 SX4- gf's
84 Eagle 4dr sedan- it followed me home... ::)
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Oldsmoletic
CNY

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2012, 08:26:47 PM »
Thanks for the pics. That is similar to what I had in mind. The connector I circled connects on one side to the transmission range sensor. Most of the wires coming out of the TRS go to the transmission TCU except for A and E. Rohnk thinks that E goes to the reverse light circuit. I'm wondering if A  a 12v+ source. According to the test procedure, when you have the transmission in reverse there should be continuity between A and E. So if E sends power to the reverse lights than that would mean A should be +. Or it could be the opposite and be a ground and send a ground to a relay. If I knew someone with a Cherokee I would just probe there connector but I don't know anyone with one.
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Rocky mountain high"  John Denver
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Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 09:59:19 PM »
I pretty sure I figured it out. A gets 12v+ and runs to the back up lights via E when in reverse. Hopefully I'll have the time to do the swap in the next couple of weeks.
"I know he'd be a poorer man if he never saw an eagle fly,
Rocky mountain high"  John Denver
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Offline shaggimo

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2012, 07:58:25 AM »
No prob, and I think that's where I made my mistake as my reverse lamps do not work, lol. ah another "micro" project for me. What year did you source your parts from, or did you get a whole donor jeep?
88 xj cherokee- ((4)(4))2
81 malibu 4dr- Identity Crisis
81 SX4- gf's
84 Eagle 4dr sedan- it followed me home... ::)
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Oldsmoletic
CNY

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2012, 08:38:29 AM »
I went to the Junkyard and cut the transmission harness and TCU from a 95 XJ. I bought an AW4 from Strike Eagle, but it is from a 2000 XJ. So I have to install an earlier extension housing, output speed sensor and rotor from a 91-96 XJ and either install the TRS (transmission range sensor) connector from the earlier years or install a whole TRS from a 91-96.  I'm going to do a write up when it is all said and done to help others who may want to do it. I've spent quite a few hours going over all the information and misinformation on the net. I absolutely do not want a box that I have to keep switching to change gears. Engineers have spent a multitude of hours to figure out how to control the transmission and it doesn't make sense to me to negate that with some toggle switches.
"I know he'd be a poorer man if he never saw an eagle fly,
Rocky mountain high"  John Denver
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Offline 1982AMCCONCORD

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #17 on: July 12, 2012, 12:25:42 PM »
Wow... you guys have really taken this to another level!!!! Congrats!

Offline shaggimo

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2012, 12:41:55 PM »
I went to the Junkyard and cut the transmission harness and TCU from a 95 XJ. I bought an AW4 from Strike Eagle, but it is from a 2000 XJ. So I have to install an earlier extension housing, output speed sensor and rotor from a 91-96 XJ and either install the TRS (transmission range sensor) connector from the earlier years or install a whole TRS from a 91-96.  I'm going to do a write up when it is all said and done to help others who may want to do it. I've spent quite a few hours going over all the information and misinformation on the net. I absolutely do not want a box that I have to keep switching to change gears. Engineers have spent a multitude of hours to figure out how to control the transmission and it doesn't make sense to me to negate that with some toggle switches.

Very cool, that's why your diagram looked odd to me, lol, I've only tore into a Renix harness (PITA I might add). What have you planned to address the electronic speedo that those have? I know there's companies out there that offer a converter box, but kinda pricey, maybe you have another trick up your sleeve for that? (or are you using the stock t-case) Eventually, the sx/4 will likely get an aw4 as well, the jeep was my experiment to see if it was within my capabilities to make work. When I go about it, I plan on using another renix version for the swap (the electronics anyway), that way I can retain a mechanical speedo.  I'll be watching for the write up  :occasion14: .
88 xj cherokee- ((4)(4))2
81 malibu 4dr- Identity Crisis
81 SX4- gf's
84 Eagle 4dr sedan- it followed me home... ::)
http://www.cardomain.com/id/Oldsmoletic
CNY

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Can I use a trans. other then the 904/727 in my 2wd Concord?
« Reply #19 on: July 12, 2012, 01:33:19 PM »
I believe 87-95 use the same connectors and the transmission harness should be the same. I'll confirm that at the junkyard next week. The speedo is on the transfer case and doesn't come into play on a 4wd. The AW4 doesn't use any VSS info, only the engine computer. The transmission gets it's speed info from the rear output speed sensor that is on the tailshaft of the transmission. The only difference that I could find from the Renix to the the HO TCU is that the Renix sends 5v through pin D1 to the TPS. The Renix engine computer uses a TPS signal that is backwards, so on the Renix throttle body you will have a dual TPS. One for the engine computer and one for the transmission computer. The one for the transmission sends info just like the later HO TPS, so Jeep just tapped into a single TPS on the HO and deleted the 5v source from pin D1 on the TCU. So doing this with a carbed engine it is best to use the Renix TCU, otherwise you will have to have a 5v stepdown regulator to supply 5v to the TPS. But those are only about $10-$15.  
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 01:35:20 PM by eaglefreek »
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