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Author Topic: Coil suggestion???  (Read 8085 times)

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Offline doc65

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Coil suggestion???
« on: February 21, 2012, 10:11:24 PM »
Anyone got a good alternative Coil for TFI conversion.  I bought a new Pertronix Flame-thrower 3 Ohm coil for this conversion, and was able to get it running, but then as soon as I got it timed & was going to move on to setting the mixture on the 2150 the car died, I was able to get it running again for a very short time, then nothing.  I replaced the IM as well as the distributor, in fairness I'd already replaced the dizzy for other reasons. After MUCH trouble shooting I finally pulled the  new coil and made up a new horseshoe connector with spade connectors on the wires so I could put it back in place and the car started right up, I timed it quickly at about 12-13* based on altitude and then let it warm up to normal ops temp.  Still need to do some work on tuning the carb & check on the powervalve, but at least it runs again. 

Offline TLC87Eagle

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 11:31:25 PM »
I recently did the TFI upgrade with the Ford 300 large cap and rotor.

I used Accel's Ford Racing Coil for Duraspark set-ups. It is a high performance direct plug-and-play set-up with the Eagle's stock coil. You can even use the stock Horseshoe type connector. It throws out 45k Volts, and I've gotten noticeable increased power and gas mileage from it. You can get them from Summit Racing or JEGS for a little over $50, good investment in my opinion.

MSD also makes one that will directly hook up with out any wire cutting, adding resistors, etc. It is also for the Ford Duraspark and makes about the same output. 
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Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 07:29:44 AM »
My Petronix lasted 3 months. My MSD is still going strong 4 years later.
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Offline doc65

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 09:23:13 AM »
Eaglefreek,

Which MSD are you using?  I have an old(still in the box though) MSD Blaster II in the garage that was bought for another project that has been stalled for too long(Old Triumph TR7 getting a balanced & blueprinted Rover 4.0 Aluminum V8) the only reason that I didn't use it for the Eagle is the voltage vs. resistance issue.  I'm thinking of just throwing it in running through the resistor wire.  The IM/ICM that I put in while troubleshooting this coil problem is from O'reilly & lifetime warranty, plus I have the one that I pulled out that was obviously not really bad, but the epoxy potting compound was loose, so I went ahead & stripped the case down.  I'm going to make it into one of the "stealth" external HEI control modules.  I'll just test it, then wrap it in bubble pack & stick it in with the spare tire.

Doc

ps I do also have a HyFire 6 CDI module to go with that coil, but would rather keep that for a planned 4.0/4.7-AX15 transplant into an SX4(still looking for the recipient)

Offline eaglefreek

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 09:53:06 AM »
Blaster II, but I replaced the Duraspark with a MSD box. I was using the Petronix 3 ohm with the Duraspark and installed the used MSD coil after the Petronix went bad. The MSD came from my 81 Eagle which worked fine for over a year with the stock Duraspark and then I installed it in my 65 IH Metro for a few months. I removed the MSD coil in the Metro when I sold it and had it sitting in the top of my tool box and it has been working fine in my 86 for almost 2 years. Now that I think about it, the MSD coil is closer to 5-6 years old.
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Offline doc65

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 10:45:56 AM »
Mine lasted maybe an hour   .  Not real happy with that time frame, it's going back to summit as quick as I can get it packed up. The car starts right up with the stock coil but new Wires/Cap & Adapter/DuraSpark IM/NUttered * timing set to 13* (4500' MSL) it doesn't want to stay running right now when it's cold, but that's a choke issue(the connector on the choke can is bent in a circle & I have to pull the carb to get it off unless I go buy an offset phillips, heck that's an excuse to go buy another tool I'll rarely use)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 10:49:17 AM by doc65 »

Offline BenM

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 12:28:43 PM »
I had a couple of different aftermarket coils fail. I eventually bought a stock Motorcraft coil and it's been on for years. You can get them to fit the connector or with screw-on terminals and they're cheap.
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Offline Jurjen

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 02:24:28 PM »
I have the Pertronix for four years now, still good in combination with the Motorcraft IM.
You have to run it on 12V from the ignition switch, the original connection is through the resistor wire, that will cause low voltage on the coil.
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Offline carnuck

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 11:53:36 PM »
I run the '70s Mopar replacement coil with zero failures in 30+ years. It even works well with points systems.
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Offline GRONK

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 02:21:28 PM »
Quote
(the connector on the choke can is bent in a circle & I have to pull the carb to get it off unless I go buy an offset phillips, heck that's an excuse to go buy another tool I'll rarely use)

I run into this problem all the time.  Take the 2 screws out you can reack and bend the retainer around the choke to remove the cap.  Once the cap is gone it's easier to get the screw out that the valve cover blocks.  When reinstalling, put the bottom screw in 1st and leave enough wiggl room to get everything else in place.  I neer retighten that bottom one.  2 will work just fine.
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Offline doc65

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2012, 03:14:18 PM »
I just bought the offset driver(ratcheting with about seven different inserts) from Lowes for like $10, go it plugged in, and the choke works nice now...

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2012, 03:57:58 PM »
I think I'm having some choke issues too. I'll have to look into this.

Offline recomer

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2012, 10:09:44 AM »

I used Accel's Ford Racing Coil for Duraspark set-ups. It is a high performance direct plug-and-play set-up with the Eagle's stock coil. You can even use the stock Horseshoe type connector. It throws out 45k Volts, and I've gotten noticeable increased power and gas mileage from it. You can get them from Summit Racing or JEGS for a little over $50, good investment in my opinion.


Resurrecting old thread as I have a question for TLC87Eagle. Is the part number for the coil you used 140207 and if so how is it holding up?

Thanks,
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Offline TLC87Eagle

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 06:06:26 PM »
Resurrecting old thread as I have a question for TLC87Eagle. Is the part number for the coil you used 140207 and if so how is it holding up?

Thanks,

Yepp, that's the part number, and I've had it almost a year now and put about 6,000 miles on it, and it's run perfectly fine and even seemed to help out the gas mileage as well. I'd recommend putting the larger Ford 300 distributor with it too, to keep the hotter spark from cross-firing in the cap. Stock plugs gaped 0.045 work just fine.

Maybe next tune-up I may try those E3 plugs to see if they make any difference or if it's just a gimmick.
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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 07:55:25 PM »

Yepp, that's the part number, and I've had it almost a year now and put about 6,000 miles on it, and it's run perfectly fine and even seemed to help out the gas mileage as well. I'd recommend putting the larger Ford 300 distributor with it too, to keep the hotter spark from cross-firing in the cap. Stock plugs gaped 0.045 work just fine.

Maybe next tune-up I may try those E3 plugs to see if they make any difference or if it's just a gimmick.

Great. I checked out all the specs on it and it seems like a good fit. Oddly enough, Accel doesnt recommend it for the AMC motor. From Accel themselves "The coil you have specified is a Ford Duraspark racing coil. I would not reccommend using that unit on an AMC/Jeep". I've placed it on order and with 8mm wires and the larger Cap.  Appreciate the reply.

Rich
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Offline TLC87Eagle

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2012, 08:33:32 PM »
Great. I checked out all the specs on it and it seems like a good fit. Oddly enough, Accel doesnt recommend it for the AMC motor. From Accel themselves "The coil you have specified is a Ford Duraspark racing coil. I would not reccommend using that unit on an AMC/Jeep". I've placed it on order and with 8mm wires and the larger Cap.  Appreciate the reply.

Rich

Accel must not realize that AMCs and Jeeps used Ford's Duraspark II ignition system for most of the 80s. The components are EXACTLY the same as Ford's. If you even look at a stock distributor, you can see it says "Ford" on it right around the vacuum advance.  ;D

And yes, it is a direct bolt in piece. No cutting, splicing, soldering, crimp connectors, resistors, or anything.
That's why I choose it over the others.
You just pull off the Ford "Horseshoe Collar" and put it on the new coil, and it will even fit in the stock mounting bracket, though I changed mine cause I wanted a new shinny one  ;D.

Good luck with yours, and I hope you enjoy the results.

-Tom
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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2012, 02:35:44 PM »
Tom,

I'm guessing you had no issues plugging the factory coil connector onto the Accel coil as your car runs. Mine wont seat correctly on the coil. Looking closer, the lip around the Accel Coil is thicker, the terminals are spread further apart and they are taller than the OEM coil. I thought maybe my connector has shrunk over the years so I bought a brand new connector. Same issue. It doesn't seat on the coil.

Rich
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Offline TLC87Eagle

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2012, 09:16:56 PM »
I did notice mine didn't slide on as easily as the stock coil, but just a little shove, and it went on there and made contact. It didn't seem like the collar spread out just a little to go around the new coil, but it made connection for me and has worked fine for months.
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Offline TLC87Eagle

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2012, 09:24:53 PM »
If you can't get anything to work, MSD also makes one for the Duraspark set-up that might have smaller dimensions.
Part Number is MSD 8205. That is if you wanted to send to Accel back and such. Sorry it didn't work for you, hopefully you find something that works out.  :-\
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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2012, 09:48:28 PM »
I did notice mine didn't slide on as easily as the stock coil, but just a little shove, and it went on there and made contact. It didn't seem like the collar spread out just a little to go around the new coil, but it made connection for me and has worked fine for months.

Mine wont slide on without seating it with a hammer...the lip around the coil is too big, the terminals are spread out too far to fit and too tall also....  I slammed a get messages to accel and asked WTF.
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Offline TLC87Eagle

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2012, 10:13:49 PM »
Yeah, I'd see what is going on with that. Mine was a little bit big, but it slid on there with a decent amount of force.
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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 08:19:01 AM »
If you can't get anything to work, MSD also makes one for the Duraspark set-up that might have smaller dimensions.
Part Number is MSD 8205. That is if you wanted to send to Accel back and such. Sorry it didn't work for you, hopefully you find something that works out.  :-\

Just looked up the specs on the MSD. Wonder what affect the primary resistance being .7 Ohms will have? (being orginal has 1.3/1.4 or something like that). Thats why I picked the accel, same/close primary resistance as orginal. Will I have to change or bypass the resistor wire?

Edit: Answered my own question. The installation instructions state: Note: The Blaster 2F Coil is designed as a replacement for coils with a "horse shoe" connector. When installing to a factory Ford ignition system, a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor or resistor wiring MUST be installed. MSD offers this Ballast Resistor as PN 8214.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 08:23:56 AM by recomer »
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Offline ammachine390

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 11:13:23 AM »
If you can't get anything to work, MSD also makes one for the Duraspark set-up that might have smaller dimensions.
Part Number is MSD 8205. That is if you wanted to send to Accel back and such. Sorry it didn't work for you, hopefully you find something that works out.  :-\

Just looked up the specs on the MSD. Wonder what affect the primary resistance being .7 Ohms will have? (being orginal has 1.3/1.4 or something like that). Thats why I picked the accel, same/close primary resistance as orginal. Will I have to change or bypass the resistor wire?

Edit: Answered my own question. The installation instructions state: Note: The Blaster 2F Coil is designed as a replacement for coils with a "horse shoe" connector. When installing to a factory Ford ignition system, a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor or resistor wiring MUST be installed. MSD offers this Ballast Resistor as PN 8214.

That won't work. If the coil is .7 ohms and the resistor is only .8 ohms, then you only have a total resistance of 1.5 ohms. That will cause a current of 8 amps to flow through the ignition module. The module can only handle up to 5 amps. You need a total resistance of at least 2.5 ohms. The only coil that you can use with the stock ignition system, and still get all the potential of the coil is the pertronix flamethrower with a primary resistance of 3.0 ohms.
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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 11:26:39 AM »
If you can't get anything to work, MSD also makes one for the Duraspark set-up that might have smaller dimensions.
Part Number is MSD 8205. That is if you wanted to send to Accel back and such. Sorry it didn't work for you, hopefully you find something that works out.  :-\

Just looked up the specs on the MSD. Wonder what affect the primary resistance being .7 Ohms will have? (being orginal has 1.3/1.4 or something like that). Thats why I picked the accel, same/close primary resistance as orginal. Will I have to change or bypass the resistor wire?

Edit: Answered my own question. The installation instructions state: Note: The Blaster 2F Coil is designed as a replacement for coils with a "horse shoe" connector. When installing to a factory Ford ignition system, a 0.8 ohm ballast resistor or resistor wiring MUST be installed. MSD offers this Ballast Resistor as PN 8214.

That won't work. If the coil is .7 ohms and the resistor is only .8 ohms, then you only have a total resistance of 1.5 ohms. That will cause a current of 8 amps to flow through the ignition module. The module can only handle up to 5 amps. You need a total resistance of at least 2.5 ohms. The only coil that you can use with the stock ignition system, and still get all the potential of the coil is the pertronix flamethrower with a primary resistance of 3.0 ohms.

It doesnt say it but Im wondering if they mean add the .8 ohm ballast resister AND leave the OEM resistive wire in place.
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Offline ammachine390

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 11:43:20 AM »
It doesnt say it but Im wondering if they mean add the .8 ohm ballast resister AND leave the OEM resistive wire in place.

Well if you do that, you will have so much voltage drop across the ballast resistors (9.0526 V), that your coil would only receive 2.9474 V to the coil. With that much voltage input, you will only get a maximum of 11053 V to the plugs. That's even less than stock.
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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2012, 01:16:46 PM »
I'm still dragging this out with Accel. So far thier answers don't make any sense. last response they told me was to use the 140001 coil and clip my OEM connector off. Of course I'd have to use an external resistor too as the 140001 only has .7 Ohms primary resistance. I'm thinking of taking a dremel tool to the horseshoe connector and adjusting it slightly to fit better.
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Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2012, 04:48:04 PM »
Ok, so gronk is no where to be found, so what part numbers should i get for a complete tfi upgrade. I read the other posts, but just want one post with best part numbers and what they are. Thanks

Offline mudkicker715

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2012, 04:50:20 PM »
Both of my strokers have used off the shelf msd.

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Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2012, 05:08:55 PM »
so all the parts are for a ford 300? What year should i ask for when i call the auto parts store. They had no idea what i wanted.  :P

Offline Draekon

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2012, 07:25:22 PM »
I think I asked for parts from a 1985 ford truck.  You need a cap, cap adapter, rotor, and plug wires.

Offline jim

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2012, 08:21:56 PM »
I think I asked for parts from a 1985 ford truck.  You need a cap, cap adapter, rotor, and plug wires.
That would be a 1985 Ford 6 cylinder.  The plug wires should be 8mm to carry the higher voltage from the upgraded coil.
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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2012, 09:06:14 PM »
I have an 83 Eagle so to make it easy for me, I just ordered parts off a 1983 Ford F-150 with a 300 6 cylinder from Advance Auto's web site. No issues and all fit well (well except my choice of coil)
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Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2012, 04:18:10 PM »
ok thanks everyone, do i have to ask for the cap adaptor separate or is that off the ford as well?

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2012, 05:35:29 PM »
ok thanks everyone, do i have to ask for the cap adaptor separate or is that off the ford as well?

it would be off the same vehicle but its a separate part...
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Offline carnuck

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2012, 11:27:42 AM »
It's not a wear and tear part so used ones are fine.
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Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2012, 07:31:19 PM »
yeah i found everything i need online pretty much now, besides the coil so far. thanks

Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2012, 07:36:43 PM »
Resurrecting old thread as I have a question for TLC87Eagle. Is the part number for the coil you used 140207 and if so how is it holding up?

Thanks,

Yepp, that's the part number, and I've had it almost a year now and put about 6,000 miles on it, and it's run perfectly fine and even seemed to help out the gas mileage as well. I'd recommend putting the larger Ford 300 distributor with it too, to keep the hotter spark from cross-firing in the cap. Stock plugs gaped 0.045 work just fine.


Maybe next tune-up I may try those E3 plugs to see if they make any difference or if it's just a gimmick.


Should i get the Petronix or this the accel? do you have to bypass the resistor with the accel like you do the other one?

Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2012, 07:43:46 PM »
sorry to be so bothersome  :-X but i dont need to retime the engine or anything after this do i? This stuff is all new to me, Im 22 so all this timing and carb stuff is way past my time haha  :newbie:

Im trying though, lots of shop manuals and books. and of course all of you  ;D

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2012, 08:10:49 PM »
Resurrecting old thread as I have a question for TLC87Eagle. Is the part number for the coil you used 140207 and if so how is it holding up?

Thanks,

Yepp, that's the part number, and I've had it almost a year now and put about 6,000 miles on it, and it's run perfectly fine and even seemed to help out the gas mileage as well. I'd recommend putting the larger Ford 300 distributor with it too, to keep the hotter spark from cross-firing in the cap. Stock plugs gaped 0.045 work just fine.


Maybe next tune-up I may try those E3 plugs to see if they make any difference or if it's just a gimmick.


Should i get the Petronix or this the accel? do you have to bypass the resistor with the accel like you do the other one?

I would stay away from the accel. The PN 140207 is "supposed" to be a OEM fit and use the OEM coil connector (and leaves the orginal resistive wire in place). It didnt on mine. Read the previous posts but the coils physical specs are different than the orginal coil.
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Offline 84eaglelmz

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2012, 11:30:20 PM »
screw on or clip on cap from the ford 300?

Offline masternull

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2012, 12:56:17 PM »
tried out the Accel 8140c

i have the original ICM (with AMC logo) and this coil causes issues wherein the car would run great for about 15 minutes then it starts to sputter and stall. lets the car sit for a few minutes then it would run great for another 10-15 minutes and sputter and stall out...

 - guessing that the 1.2 OHM resistance of this new coil (compared to 1.4 OHM of stock) is just enough to cause the original AMC ICM to freak out?

went back to stock coil and no issues yet.

going to try a new off the shelf ICM with that coil and see if it can handle it, if no luck there then ditching that coil and will try out the Accel - Ford Ignition Coil Part Number: 140207 which has 1.4 OHM and see how that does.

Offline recomer

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2012, 02:28:43 PM »

going to try a new off the shelf ICM with that coil and see if it can handle it, if no luck there then ditching that coil and will try out the Accel - Ford Ignition Coil Part Number: 140207 which has 1.4 OHM and see how that does.


If you go with the 140207, before you go through the work of removing the old one, test fit the horseshoe connector to the Accel coil first. If its anything like the one I have on my desk being used as a paperweight the connector won't seat correctly. One guy in this thread said his fit but mine wouldn't. The lip around the coil is too thick, the contacts are slightly wider and taller than the OEM coil. I grabbed a connector off a truck at the local pick and pull and modified it extensively to get it to seat correctly.
83 Eagle Wagon

Offline masternull

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #42 on: November 24, 2012, 02:20:38 AM »
got it in today, also got a new u connector for the coil, not a perfect fit but it does work and seems pretty tight. coil and computer work together well and major performance difference compared to from stock coil... no problems yet


Offline TLC87Eagle

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Re: Coil suggestion???
« Reply #43 on: November 24, 2012, 09:03:27 PM »
got it in today, also got a new u connector for the coil, not a perfect fit but it does work and seems pretty tight. coil and computer work together well and major performance difference compared to from stock coil... no problems yet

Yeah, the collar is not a perfect fit, but I managed to get mine on with the stock collar using just a little bit of force. Actually makes for a tight fit. Good thing you got a new ICM too, cause those sounded like symptoms of your ICM failing. Mine did the same thing just before it completely failed, but I didn't take the warning signs. Good thing I always carry a spare in the back with me.
1987 Eagle Wagon Limited

 

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