mail

Author Topic: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info  (Read 21959 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline IowaEagle

  • AMC Eagle Archivist
  • Administrator
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ******
  • Posts: 30814
  • Thumbs Up 427
AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« on: May 09, 2004, 08:58:07 AM »
Application Years (for Eagles):

The below information was compiled by Antti-Ville Nauha and has/is being edited for Eagle applications.

SR-4 4spd (151/258) '81
SR-4 AMC is pretty much the same as the Ford versions and limited to 220 foot pounds.
An exploded diagram in located in the Diagrams Section of this forum.

T4 4spd (151/150/258 ) '82-'86
T-4/T-5 has TF-998/904 output shaft and seal, so when converting from AMC T-4/5 to a Ford unit you will need the yoke.

T5 5spd S (150/258 ) '82-'87
T-5 looks very similar to the SR-4 and T-4, except for the bulge the shift lever housing for the overdrive.
T-5 front bearing retainer in the AMC T-5 is GM size, as is input  shaft. They're maybe shared with gm, or just compatible.  T-5 from a Mustang will fit any AMC engine if you get the bellhousing from SR-4 ('76-'81), T-4 ('82-'88 ) or T-5 ('83-'88 ) , and the throw out arm and bearing, from the same bell.   Also the front bearing retainer is needed, gm size, (maybe gm part?), if you don't want to modify the Mustang part.  Right clutch disc with the correct # of splines that also fits the pressure plate you're using, and the pilot bearing is also needed.
T-5 '94-up mustang input shafts are ~2/3" longer.

150-T (Tremec) is a Ford Toploader design. All the big three used  them in the late '70s; A toploader 4spd will slip right into the bellhousing and clutch. Also the output spline is the same [ 28 ] - the 150t is ford all the way. From compact to midsize cars the trannies are the same length as the 3spd.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2005, 10:16:02 AM by IowaEagle »
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline mick

  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1136
  • Thumbs Up 42
Re:AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2004, 03:00:45 AM »
What's the torque rating on the Eagle T-5?  I have a feeling a 400+ inch v-8 will one day reside in SX-4. I'd like to keep the t-5 if it will hold up.
ALMOST A Jeep THING...EVEN I DON'T UNDERSTAND

rally boy

  • Guest
Re:AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2004, 10:16:09 PM »
well mick i dont think the stock t-5 will handle that kind of power. im assuming, once again, that the t-5 in an amc is the same as mid 80's t-5's in mustang's and camaro's. if i remember correctly a stock tranny cld probably handle like 260 hp. they kept upgrading them over the years. next level maybe 285 hp. now adays they got em up to like 325-340. i believe you cld rebuild yours with some heavy duty internals or youd have to purchase one from the aftermarket. everyone and his brother has modified these tranny's and FORD even sells em from the factory for a somewhat reasonable price. they really pionierd the developement with the cobra mustangs and a billion other drag racers. watch that second gear. miss a cple 1-2 shifts or speed shift it and bye-bye second. i totally envy you . i want an sx/4 with a 5 spd really bad. i also wld love to drop a 401 in there. heard its more work than its worth though. long live speed junkies!

Offline IowaEagle

  • AMC Eagle Archivist
  • Administrator
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ******
  • Posts: 30814
  • Thumbs Up 427
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2005, 07:20:50 AM »
Went and checked my facts out and we were both partially right/wrong.  The T-5 was available from '82 -'87.  During the final year with only the 2.73 axle ratio.
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline IowaEagle

  • AMC Eagle Archivist
  • Administrator
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ******
  • Posts: 30814
  • Thumbs Up 427
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2005, 02:17:53 PM »
I think it was the standard trans with the auto as an option.  There might have been a few that actually had them.
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline IowaEagle

  • AMC Eagle Archivist
  • Administrator
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ******
  • Posts: 30814
  • Thumbs Up 427
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2005, 09:50:59 PM »
Most wagons and sedans had auto's  (Of course in '80 that was the only trans).  A much large number of the 50 series cars had manual transmissions -- unlike you though, I have only seen one SX/4 (not that I have seen that many) with a manual and of course that was a 4 banger.  Its too bad AMC did not keep records of how many cars were equipped with what -- just think of the trivia I could have fun with then.
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline ernestborgnineamc

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 82
  • Thumbs Up 1
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2006, 09:46:29 PM »
Does anyone have the part numbers required to convert the sr4 to a t-5?
Thanks
jon

Offline hypereagle

  • SX4! A car that's in a league of it's own.
  • Eagle Sport
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
  • Thumbs Up 10
Re:AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2006, 01:04:41 AM »
well mick i dont think the stock t-5 will handle that kind of power. im assuming, once again, that the t-5 in an amc is the same as mid 80's t-5's in mustang's and camaro's. if i remember correctly a stock tranny cld probably handle like 260 hp. they kept upgrading them over the years. next level maybe 285 hp. now adays they got em up to like 325-340. i believe you cld rebuild yours with some heavy duty internals or youd have to purchase one from the aftermarket. everyone and his brother has modified these tranny's and FORD even sells em from the factory for a somewhat reasonable price. they really pionierd the developement with the cobra mustangs and a billion other drag racers. watch that second gear. miss a cple 1-2 shifts or speed shift it and bye-bye second. i totally envy you . i want an sx/4 with a 5 spd really bad. i also wld love to drop a 401 in there. heard its more work than its worth though. long live speed junkies!
I've taken note on the 6 spd. trans. swap and like the idea very much. Listening about the torque ratings all make sense - but it's all  pretty hard to know forsure until it's been done. Originally with the 6 cyl. and 4 spd in my car they pretty much cratered at the same time. I already did have the T5 in and NP207transfer case in the car andran it for another 3 years with the 360 hooked up to it.
 Shattered 2 clutches, and 3 rear axles but not the trans. It's a puney trans. and I'm still sceptical about it's size but it still has proven me wrong.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 12:29:51 AM by hypereagle »
73 AMX/Javelin, 79 Spirit, 81 SX4, 87 Comanche, 02 Grand Cherokee Ltd, 86 2dr Cherokee, 70 AMX 390 4 Spd.

Offline amcinstaller

  • Installer, Mechanic, Who Knows.....
  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1192
  • Thumbs Up 38
  • So That's Like A Cross Between A Pinto And A Vega?
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2007, 08:38:59 PM »
ive heard it said many times that the sr4 just didnt last between the 258 and a 4wd. not sure how true that is though.

www.decibelcar.com
www.jeepstrokers.com
1980 AMC Spirit GT  Restomod In Progress
1998 Dodge Stratus  Boring DD With Loud DD Bass
Liquid Audio Styling and Sound
Red Deer, AB, Canada

eaglesx4

  • Guest
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2007, 08:48:16 PM »
IE makes my car more rare everytime I see info, it's a 258 I-6 with 4 speed manual transmission.  I have at times looked down to make sure its  in 4th at 65 sounds like another gear is needed.

Offline bigdog56e

  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ********
  • Posts: 3556
  • Thumbs Up 65
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2007, 09:21:24 PM »
  The SR-4 was used in the last of the F100 Fords behind the 300 six and 302, not very durable. The "Z" version of the T-5 used in Mustang GT is rated 330 ft lbs torque, that is the one you want. gear ratios 2.95,1.94,1.34,1.0 and.63. The T-5 in the homebuilt is from a turbo coupe, extremely low 1st gear, like 30mph at 5000 rpm.
                                                                                                  Eddie

Offline ramblerman62-87

  • from the frist car to the next amc
  • Eagle DL
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Thumbs Up 8
  • live well and have fun in what you do
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2008, 03:24:25 AM »
dumb ? here but I would like to possibly stick a stick in my 87 wagon. has any one done it, or was is it an option? I Reilly don't care much for an auto trans. could any one point me in the right direction. thanks but this means i will need to find some donor pedals and set up, and  get mine running just to see if and how I like it as is or if it needs a 5sped. does the mpg get better what do you get? I would like to know MPG stick Vs auto any year with I6 maybe in town and on the road. thanks 
62 Rambler classic
87 AMC eagle
90 mustang
20+ Allis Chalmers garden tractors

www.simpletractors.com

Offline IowaEagle

  • AMC Eagle Archivist
  • Administrator
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ******
  • Posts: 30814
  • Thumbs Up 427
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2008, 05:53:55 AM »
Yup, '87 Eagles came standard with a manual trans.
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2008, 11:40:41 PM »
People keep saying that you can use a tranny from a mustang... As far as I know, this information is incorrect unless you get the tailshaft housing from a 4x4 t-5, as it wont bolt to the transfer case if it is the 2WD t-5.

If this is not the case, I would love to know what you guys are doing, or are you just ditching the 4WD altogether?

Offline IowaEagle

  • AMC Eagle Archivist
  • Administrator
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ******
  • Posts: 30814
  • Thumbs Up 427
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2008, 06:50:05 AM »
I believe you are correct.  You would need the adapter.
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline bigdog56e

  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ********
  • Posts: 3556
  • Thumbs Up 65
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2008, 09:13:25 AM »
  Also need the 4X output shaft.
                                           Eddie

Offline IowaEagle

  • AMC Eagle Archivist
  • Administrator
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ******
  • Posts: 30814
  • Thumbs Up 427
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2008, 09:56:10 AM »
Yup, that too, at the least.
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline ericarmstrong

  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1073
  • Thumbs Up 52
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2009, 09:36:15 PM »
What prevents us from using an ax-15 or a  ba 10/5 ??? I'm sure there's  an obvious reason thats going to make me look stupid as soon as this is answered, but i have to learn some how.  ;D   

I intended to post this in manual tran. not under amc manual tran. gen. info sorry
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 11:26:57 PM by ericarmstrong »
1982 AMC Eagle SX/4

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2009, 06:41:06 PM »
What prevents us from using an ax-15 or a  ba 10/5 ??? I'm sure there's  an obvious reason thats going to make me look stupid as soon as this is answered, but i have to learn some how.  ;D   

I intended to post this in manual tran. not under amc manual tran. gen. info sorry

The AX-15 has the same bolt pattern as the stock Tcases for eagles. NP 119, and 129 I believe. These Tcases have a longer collor for their input shaft, so the two will mate, but there is a gap of about one inch. There may be an adapter plate available.

I am currently dealing with this problem. I have two Tcases, both 129s, and I am going to attempt to shorten the collar so that I wont need to use an adapter, this way the shafts have more mating surface and can handle more torque. With an adapter, they will only mate for about 2-2.25 inches. Without it, about 3-3.25. Im not sure if this mod is possible or probable yet, but I will let everyone know if it is.

Another thing you can do is get a different Tcase, there is a writeup about it here:

http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=13293.0

I think this is possibly the best tranny for the eagle sx4 application. I hope I can figure something out.

Offline The Dark Side of Will

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 87
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2009, 12:16:30 PM »
  The SR-4 was used in the last of the F100 Fords behind the 300 six and 302, not very durable. The "Z" version of the T-5 used in Mustang GT is rated 330 ft lbs torque, that is the one you want. gear ratios 2.95,1.94,1.34,1.0 and.63. The T-5 in the homebuilt is from a turbo coupe, extremely low 1st gear, like 30mph at 5000 rpm.
                                                                                                  Eddie

People keep saying that you can use a tranny from a mustang... As far as I know, this information is incorrect unless you get the tailshaft housing from a 4x4 t-5, as it wont bolt to the transfer case if it is the 2WD t-5.

If this is not the case, I would love to know what you guys are doing, or are you just ditching the 4WD altogether?


I just bought an '85 5 speed wagon with 2.73's. I'd like to do both of these mods... I'd like the '93 Cobra gearset for enjoyment on the street and the taller overdrive gear. To make that work offroad, I'd like to set it up with a 2 speed T-case and 4:1 low range. I @$$ume that the 4wd output shaft is compatible with this gearset? What would be the right applications to look at to snag an extra T-case adapter?

The Eagle T-5's had a 0.76 top gear stock, right?

Offline captspillane

  • The Perkiomen Eagle Sanctuary
  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 818
  • Thumbs Up 113
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2009, 10:39:28 PM »
Howdy,
Do not overlook the NV3550. It is much stronger than the T5 and was installed behind Jeep 4.0s up until the 4.0 was replaced by the V6 in 2006. It and the similar NV4500 and NGS370 6 speed are the only transmissions I would ever consider putting behind an AMC V8.

I believe strength numbers for the T5 are around 200, world class T5s around 250 and the NV3550 around 350. There is no competition.

New and rebuilt conversion packages are readily available. Packages that include the transmission, bellhousing, shifter, and a low range transfer case cost about $2,000. Thats well worth it for a car intended as a daily driver.

NV3550s have the sensor hole already and are all ready to be installed behind a fuel injected 4.0.

Dave Spillane

3 SX4s
2 Station Wagons
2 Sedans
1 Spirit
4 Parts Eagles
Currently Inspected and Insured as of Jan 2013:
-1985 Eagle Station Wagon 258 T5 Stickshift
-1980 Eagle Station Wagon 258 Auto Fuel-injected with GM TBI

Minor Repairs Underway:
-1982 Eagle SX4 258 T5
-1981 Kammback 2.5L Iron Duke T5

Restoration Efforts Near Completion:
-1982 SX4- 401 NV3550
-1983 SX4- 4.5 MPI NSG370 (6 Speed)

Restoration Efforts Underway:
-1985 SW- 4.0 MPI AX15
-1982 SX4- 4.0 AW4
-1981 SX4- SD33T NV4500 (Turbodiesel 5 speed)

Future Rescue Efforts- '85 Maroon SW, '87 Limited SW, '84 Limited SW, '87 4 door Sedan, '81 2 door Sedan, '88 White SW, '77 4 door Hornet, '74 2 door Hornet, '79 Spirit AMX, '81 Kammback.

RIP- Red '81 SX4, '84 4dr Sedan, '84 SW, '81 SW, '80 Spirit, '83 SW, '83 4dr Sedan

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2010, 11:21:09 AM »
I have actually settled on the AX-15 with a NP/NV247.

This combo will be full time all wheel drive, 5 spd, with a lo range.

The AX-15 I have came out of a diesel, word has it that it is stronger than the others that came from gas jeeps.

2 things:

I had to find a shorter input shaft for the 247. I yanked it off of a 249 at pick&pull, which has a lot of common parts with the 247. I took the whole planetary assembly, and it dropped right in to the 247.

I also yanked the front-yoke off of the 249, because the 247 had a different type of front drive shaft. If anyone else happens to do this, and rebuilds their 247 before installation, WATCH OUT FOR THE NEEDLE BEARINGS. They will fall everywhere if you're not prepared.

For reassembly, I used a synthetic transmission assembly lube, the needle bearings are much easier to deal with with some sticky grease like that.

Now If I can just get these SMOG-Nazis over here in California to look the other way on a few things...

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2010, 11:23:13 AM »
Another heads-up if anyone tries to mate a 247 to the AX15:

The AX15 output shaft is a little bit too long. I don't know if there is an adapter available, but I don't really want to add anymore length, the AX15 is already longer than the SR4. My plan is to shorten that shaft by 9/16."

After that, the two will finally marry.

Offline amcconcord

  • AMC Eagle Lover
  • Administrator
  • Eagle
  • ******
  • Posts: 67
  • Thumbs Up 20
    • Rhode Island AMC Club website
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info {Don't Understand?]
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2010, 10:29:29 PM »
This site states as matter of fact, that the 1980 and 1981 eagles either only offered in 1980 Automatic or in !981 Automatic or a 4 Speed tranny?
This is like totally WRONG!
Bought a KammBack like New from dealer .3 miles on her still Have Manual Tranny 4 Spead! Could order, this was in  the show room [Fact not Fiction]
Bought and still own 1981 2 door brown Eagle Sedan, 5 Speed was in Showroom New, Just off truck Build Date Feb 1981 again Fact not Fiction can prove without any doubt, bought new, always owned, never changed, were is this mis info coming from?
Ratio wrong also!
First need for me to post build date, Tranny numbers, pictures of inside Eagles, to include Vin Id
Then we can chat about what was used what year?
Will post in the next couple of days.
Have to go to storage. ;D

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2010, 10:38:45 PM »
Built in 1981 means that the model year was possibly 1982, when the 5-speed became an option.

Not saying you're wrong, but I would be interested to see that you're right!
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 10:43:52 AM by Alcoatari »

Offline maddog

  • a long haired redneck country boy
  • Eagle Turbo Diesel
  • *******
  • Posts: 1381
  • Thumbs Up 27
  • AMC Eagle the original crossover
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2010, 02:42:19 AM »
well seeing as the car was built in february of 81 it is in fact an 81. now if the car had been built in say august it would be an 82.
1980 AMC EAGLE WAGON(DAILY DRIVER/PROJECT) EAGLE EYES
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=30758.0
1983 AMC EAGLE LIMITED WAGON(PROJECT AND FUTURE DAILY DRIVER) SURVIVOR
http://forums.amceaglesden.com/index.php?topic=32372.0
1991 PONTIAC 2DOOR SUNBIRD(STOCK CAR HORNET CLASS)

Offline tougeagle

  • Small business owner and professional mechanic in the making
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ********
  • Posts: 1723
  • Thumbs Up 74
  • Eagles like twisties. If you dont, don't drive one
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2010, 05:00:40 AM »
Another heads-up if anyone tries to mate a 247 to the AX15:

The AX15 output shaft is a little bit too long. I don't know if there is an adapter available, but I don't really want to add anymore length, the AX15 is already longer than the SR4. My plan is to shorten that shaft by 9/16."

After that, the two will finally marry.

Why didyou not go with the 249? They bolt right up to the ax15, as does the stock eagle case....
1983 "Special Edition" 5 speed wagon, power leather seat conversion, flexfuel, ax15+np249, 2.73s, High Output 4.2 - 1995 4.0 EFI/head/cam conversion on royal purple - 45k ign, 60mm bored tb, poly swb, sport wagon rsb, 2.5" headerback ex, 2 cat, cherrybomb,  The one and only dd, the first true "crossover", and true to AMC form, a unique classic..... Up for sale, with a dead cylinder.

Putting mental sanity at risk every time I lift the hood

A dream car does not have to be beautiful in the eyes of others, it's not theirs.

Offline IowaEagle

  • AMC Eagle Archivist
  • Administrator
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ******
  • Posts: 30814
  • Thumbs Up 427
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2010, 05:25:05 AM »
We all know that AMC factory literature was not always right, and that is where we get a lot of our information from.  Its members, like you, with real world experience who are able to point out these things and let us know.  Yes, a February '81 built car would still be an '81.   AMC liked to do running year changes in January, so I am wondering if AMC brought out the 5 speed "mid" year and that such an event never made it into any official AMC literature other than the dealer's option list?
Click for Toledo, IA Forecast" border="0" height="100" width="150   


Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2010, 10:38:17 AM »
Another heads-up if anyone tries to mate a 247 to the AX15:

The AX15 output shaft is a little bit too long. I don't know if there is an adapter available, but I don't really want to add anymore length, the AX15 is already longer than the SR4. My plan is to shorten that shaft by 9/16."

After that, the two will finally marry.

Why didyou not go with the 249? They bolt right up to the ax15, as does the stock eagle case....

I tried to bolt on the stock t-case, and as I said, the output shaft of the tranny bottomed out in the stock t-case and the 247. First, with the 247 long input shaft, the splines weren't long enough. Then, after I rebuilt the 247, with the short input shaft (from a 249), the output of the AX15 bottomed out.


Kind of a bad picture of a 249, but I think it is good enough for comparison.


Thats the 247 with long input shaft

In my journey to find a transfer case, I personally dismantled both a 249 and a 247, and, as you can see in the pictures, they have very similar, if not identical enclosures. I believe the bolt pattern, input shaft, and (rear) output shaft are the same for the 247/249. In a lot of the literature I read, the 247/249 were lumped into the same manual. "http://www.transtar1.com/catDownload.asp?ID=667" (adobe)

The key differences being a progressive coupling versus a viscous coupling and the front drive-shaft yoke. I wanted the progressive coupling feature of the 247. I have heard that it can be problematic, but a lot of those issues were fluid related. My 247 has 4-All Time, Neutral, and 4-Lo; as far as 4-wheel, it engages at any loss of traction of the rear wheels, and does so much faster than a viscous coupling; sounds good to me. (If it works correctly.)

So why didn't my 247 "bolt on?" I really don't know.

I think my problem was with the transmission, not the t-case. The guy I bought the tranny from told me it was from a diesel, that might have something to do with the problems I encountered.

Justin
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 12:22:38 PM by Alcoatari »

Offline ericarmstrong

  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 1073
  • Thumbs Up 52
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2010, 12:58:15 PM »
Another heads-up if anyone tries to mate a 247 to the AX15:

The AX15 output shaft is a little bit too long. I don't know if there is an adapter available, but I don't really want to add anymore length, the AX15 is already longer than the SR4. My plan is to shorten that shaft by 9/16."

After that, the two will finally marry.

Why didyou not go with the 249? They bolt right up to the ax15, as does the stock eagle case....

Our stock TC bolts to the AX/15? I was under the imression there was no way.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 01:08:15 PM by ericarmstrong »
1982 AMC Eagle SX/4

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2010, 01:06:33 PM »
Another heads-up if anyone tries to mate a 247 to the AX15:

The AX15 output shaft is a little bit too long. I don't know if there is an adapter available, but I don't really want to add anymore length, the AX15 is already longer than the SR4. My plan is to shorten that shaft by 9/16."

After that, the two will finally marry.

Why didyou not go with the 249? They bolt right up to the ax15, as does the stock eagle case....

Our stock TC bolts to the AX/15 I was under the imression there was no way.

lol, I couldn't make it fit without about a half inch gap between the two... Just my experience, maybe my garage is located in the twilight zone.

Offline tougeagle

  • Small business owner and professional mechanic in the making
  • AMC Eagle Nest Addicted
  • ********
  • Posts: 1723
  • Thumbs Up 74
  • Eagles like twisties. If you dont, don't drive one
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2010, 09:21:23 PM »
Another heads-up if anyone tries to mate a 247 to the AX15:

The AX15 output shaft is a little bit too long. I don't know if there is an adapter available, but I don't really want to add anymore length, the AX15 is already longer than the SR4. My plan is to shorten that shaft by 9/16."

After that, the two will finally marry.

Why didyou not go with the 249? They bolt right up to the ax15, as does the stock eagle case....

Our stock TC bolts to the AX/15? I was under the imression there was no way.

I have pictures of the comparisons somewhere. Maybe my trans is unique. It was said to be from a 90 or 91, but it had external slave bellhousing and .75" input, found on 96-up IIRC
1983 "Special Edition" 5 speed wagon, power leather seat conversion, flexfuel, ax15+np249, 2.73s, High Output 4.2 - 1995 4.0 EFI/head/cam conversion on royal purple - 45k ign, 60mm bored tb, poly swb, sport wagon rsb, 2.5" headerback ex, 2 cat, cherrybomb,  The one and only dd, the first true "crossover", and true to AMC form, a unique classic..... Up for sale, with a dead cylinder.

Putting mental sanity at risk every time I lift the hood

A dream car does not have to be beautiful in the eyes of others, it's not theirs.

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2010, 09:22:15 PM »
Another heads-up if anyone tries to mate a 247 to the AX15:

The AX15 output shaft is a little bit too long. I don't know if there is an adapter available, but I don't really want to add anymore length, the AX15 is already longer than the SR4. My plan is to shorten that shaft by 9/16."

After that, the two will finally marry.

Why didyou not go with the 249? They bolt right up to the ax15, as does the stock eagle case....

Our stock TC bolts to the AX/15? I was under the imression there was no way.

I have pictures of the comparisons somewhere. Maybe my trans is unique. It was said to be from a 90 or 91, but it had external slave bellhousing and .75" input, found on 96-up IIRC

:censored:, I so wish it had been that easy for me haha

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2010, 09:27:28 PM »
And you are right Tougeagle, I would have sworn on a stack of bibles that the stock t-case would have fit, but it wouldn't, try as I may.

Offline captspillane

  • The Perkiomen Eagle Sanctuary
  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 818
  • Thumbs Up 113
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2011, 05:49:29 AM »
Your 5 speed options are as follows:
1) T5 transmission rated at 265 ft/lbs. This is the five speed original to Eagles and CJs. It is a very small casing and prone to breaking in a bunch of ways. It shifts very nicely and doesn't weigh much, but its really just intended for cars. Don’t get a T5 if you’re going to tow with your Eagle.

2) "World Class" T5 transmission. These are common in Ford Mustangs but do not adapt to our transfer cases easily. Some people take the Jeep T5 and swap in most of the "World Class" parts, but it’s not even remotely worth your time. When they're finished the case is still prone to warping under torque and it is still considerably weaker than an AX15 or NV3550.

3) AX15 Transmission rated at 285 ft/lbs: This is found behind the 4.0 in Wranglers and Cherokees from around 1990 to 1998. I forget the exact years. This transmission shifts very nicely and is also very strong. It’s very common and is the easiest transmission to find at a junkyard. Early AX15s had an internal slave cylinder and later ones are external. Either one works fine, but I would prefer the internal slave cylinder because it has a normal 3/16 double flare input versus the crazy pin and o-ring input the external slave cylinder has. You must use a 4.0 flywheel with this transmission because the 4.2 flywheel is a quarter inch thicker. The T5 clutch is the same, but the pilot bearing is different for the AX15 and NV3550. Instead of a brass plug the AX15 and NV3550 have a thin roller bearing pressed into an aluminum spacer that in turn is pressed into the end of the crankshaft. Make sure you get the roller bearing and aluminum spacer together, since you can’t remove the bearing without damaging the spacer. I first bought mine at Autozone and only the roller bearing part came. I then bought it at Advanced and the two came together for the same price.

4) NV3550 rated at 300 ft/lbs: This is the strongest five speed found in factory Jeeps. It replaced the AX15 around 2000 until 2004. Advance Adaptors sells the external slave cylinder with a stainless mesh flexible input line and the brass adaptors it needs. With that kit you just need to make a short piece of double flare brake line from your Eagle clutch master cylinder to the flex line. You must use the correct fluid or you’ll damage the synchros.

If you’re installing it behind a 4.2 or 4.0 you should retain the NV3550 bellhousing and 4.0 flywheel so that your fuel injection has a place for the crank sensor. If you’re installing it behind an AMC V8 you cannot use a 4.0 flywheel because V8s are externally balanced. In that case use an Advanced Adaptors kit that mounts between the NV3550 and a T5 bellhousing (Its basically a 3/4 inch thick spacer). That retains the bigger flywheel and all the original shift linkage.

5) NSG370 6 speed transmission rated at 272 ftlbs: This replaced the NV3550 in Jeep Wranglers. They’re very rare but not impossible to find. Only a NSG370 from a 2005 or 2006 4.0 Jeep Wrangler has the AMC bolt pattern. They still use the NSG370 today in Jeeps, but the bellhousing cannot be removed from the transmission so 2007 and newer Jeeps have a Chrysler bolt pattern and are useless to us. This transmission has a 4.46 first gear and a 0.84 overdrive in contrast to the 3.83 first gear and 0.79 overdrive in an AX15. This means that you should use 3.07 gears with a NSG370 to get the same shift points you would have with an AX15 mated to 3.55 gears.

6) AX5 transmssion: Its a very weak transmission easily confused with an AX15. Don't use it. Only 4.0 Jeeps have the AX15.

7) NV4500 rated at 460 ft/lbs: This is a true truck transmission. It’s literally twice as heavy as a T5, it shifts clunky like a truck, and it is easy to adapt to our engines and transmissions but it’s not easy to fit under our Eagle floorpan. This option should only be considered if you have a 401 in front of it and a custom Dana 60 axle behind it.
Currently Inspected and Insured as of Jan 2013:
-1985 Eagle Station Wagon 258 T5 Stickshift
-1980 Eagle Station Wagon 258 Auto Fuel-injected with GM TBI

Minor Repairs Underway:
-1982 Eagle SX4 258 T5
-1981 Kammback 2.5L Iron Duke T5

Restoration Efforts Near Completion:
-1982 SX4- 401 NV3550
-1983 SX4- 4.5 MPI NSG370 (6 Speed)

Restoration Efforts Underway:
-1985 SW- 4.0 MPI AX15
-1982 SX4- 4.0 AW4
-1981 SX4- SD33T NV4500 (Turbodiesel 5 speed)

Future Rescue Efforts- '85 Maroon SW, '87 Limited SW, '84 Limited SW, '87 4 door Sedan, '81 2 door Sedan, '88 White SW, '77 4 door Hornet, '74 2 door Hornet, '79 Spirit AMX, '81 Kammback.

RIP- Red '81 SX4, '84 4dr Sedan, '84 SW, '81 SW, '80 Spirit, '83 SW, '83 4dr Sedan

Offline captspillane

  • The Perkiomen Eagle Sanctuary
  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 818
  • Thumbs Up 113
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2011, 01:27:33 PM »
This picture shows my NSG370 6 Speed to the far left. Next to it is the NV3550 5 speed. There are two T5s sitting to the right of that. The second picture shows an AX15. The third picture shows the crank position sensor hole on the NV3550, AX15, AW4, and TF999. The fourth picture shows the crank position sensor hole on the NSG370. The notches in the flywheel are identical, but clocked differently because the 6 speed hole is on the side. The engine will not run if you use a 5 speed 4.0 flywheel with the 6 speed. I'll have to get a better picture of the AX15 next to the NV3550 next time I'm home.









Currently Inspected and Insured as of Jan 2013:
-1985 Eagle Station Wagon 258 T5 Stickshift
-1980 Eagle Station Wagon 258 Auto Fuel-injected with GM TBI

Minor Repairs Underway:
-1982 Eagle SX4 258 T5
-1981 Kammback 2.5L Iron Duke T5

Restoration Efforts Near Completion:
-1982 SX4- 401 NV3550
-1983 SX4- 4.5 MPI NSG370 (6 Speed)

Restoration Efforts Underway:
-1985 SW- 4.0 MPI AX15
-1982 SX4- 4.0 AW4
-1981 SX4- SD33T NV4500 (Turbodiesel 5 speed)

Future Rescue Efforts- '85 Maroon SW, '87 Limited SW, '84 Limited SW, '87 4 door Sedan, '81 2 door Sedan, '88 White SW, '77 4 door Hornet, '74 2 door Hornet, '79 Spirit AMX, '81 Kammback.

RIP- Red '81 SX4, '84 4dr Sedan, '84 SW, '81 SW, '80 Spirit, '83 SW, '83 4dr Sedan

Offline standup650

  • Eagle DL
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
  • Thumbs Up 7
  • Never thought i'd have one but know i always will!
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2012, 10:01:08 AM »
4) NV3550 rated at 300 ft/lbs: This is the strongest five speed found in factory Jeeps. It replaced the AX15 around 2000 until 2004. Advance Adaptors sells the external slave cylinder with a stainless mesh flexible input line and the brass adaptors it needs. With that kit you just need to make a short piece of double flare brake line from your Eagle clutch master cylinder to the flex line. You must use the correct fluid or you’ll damage the synchros.

If you’re installing it behind a 4.2 or 4.0 you should retain the NV3550 bellhousing and 4.0 flywheel so that your fuel injection has a place for the crank sensor. If you’re installing it behind an AMC V8 you cannot use a 4.0 flywheel because V8s are externally balanced. In that case use an Advanced Adaptors kit that mounts between the NV3550 and a T5 bellhousing (Its basically a 3/4 inch thick spacer). That retains the bigger flywheel and all the original shift linkage.
Have you done this behind the 4.2? Is it pretty bolt in? And are bolt on t case options limited?

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2012, 05:10:45 PM »
3) AX15 Transmission rated at 285 ft/lbs: This is found behind the 4.0 in Wranglers and Cherokees from around 1990 to 1998. I forget the exact years. This transmission shifts very nicely and is also very strong. It’s very common and is the easiest transmission to find at a junkyard. Early AX15s had an internal slave cylinder and later ones are external. Either one works fine, but I would prefer the internal slave cylinder because it has a normal 3/16 double flare input versus the crazy pin and o-ring input the external slave cylinder has. You must use a 4.0 flywheel with this transmission because the 4.2 flywheel is a quarter inch thicker. The T5 clutch is the same, but the pilot bearing is different for the AX15 and NV3550. Instead of a brass plug the AX15 and NV3550 have a thin roller bearing pressed into an aluminum spacer that in turn is pressed into the end of the crankshaft. Make sure you get the roller bearing and aluminum spacer together, since you can’t remove the bearing without damaging the spacer. I first bought mine at Autozone and only the roller bearing part came. I then bought it at Advanced and the two came together for the same price.

I used whatever flywheel came off the 4.2 (Kragen Crate) and so far everything has been fine. Is it possible that later 4.2 crate motors used the thinner flywheel as seen in the 4.0?

If not, what are the potential issues with the 4.2 flywheel being a 1/4 inch thicker?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 05:13:01 PM by Alcoatari »

Offline doc65

  • Eagle DL
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
  • Thumbs Up 6
  • Ogden, UT
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2012, 09:36:39 PM »
On a manual I would expect very little issue if everything bolted together without binding.  it the clutch disk doesn't hit the front bearing retainier/throwout bearing guide, and the preasure plate has clearance, oh and the throwout bearing still has room to move backward as the clutch disc wears then it should be fine.  On other engine/trans swaps decades ago I remember having the choice between a diaphragm, Borg & Beck or Long Style preasure plate, you just had to make sure to match the throw out to the preasure plate style that you were using.

Now an auto trans is a different story, the offset that is pressed into the flex-plate(when they aren't just flat that is) can put the snout of the torque converter too far in or not far enough, and can either leak like a seive, or damage parts 

Doc

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2012, 09:51:57 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply and thorough response.

Your knowledge is so appreciated.

Really, all of you guys were a great resource for my project.

Thanks.

Offline captspillane

  • The Perkiomen Eagle Sanctuary
  • Eagle Sundaancer
  • ******
  • Posts: 818
  • Thumbs Up 113
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2012, 06:05:34 PM »
The hydraulic system does have enough play to account for the difference in thickness but you will need to account for it with the length of your pushrod. A mechanical linkage from a CJ has a screw in adjustment to the length of the pushrod, so you could adapt one of those as a means of adjusting it, or you could experiment and find what works. I personally am not willing to deal with making it work, and there is a possibillity that it won't work.

I had a nightmare with my Spirit when I switched from 9" clutch to 10" clutch. It should work but it doesn't. The mechanical linkage didn't have quite enough adjustment. I'll never put my self through that again.

I do have an AX15 internal slave, NSG370 6 speed, and NV3550 external slave ready to install in an Eagle in my garage. My CJ8 Scrambler also has the Advanced Adaptors kit with T5 bellhousing, flywheel, clutch, and linkages with a NV3550 behind it. Any specific questions about them?

There are two types of 4.0 flywheels. The NSG370 CPS notches are clocked differently than the AX15 version, but its otherwise identical.
Currently Inspected and Insured as of Jan 2013:
-1985 Eagle Station Wagon 258 T5 Stickshift
-1980 Eagle Station Wagon 258 Auto Fuel-injected with GM TBI

Minor Repairs Underway:
-1982 Eagle SX4 258 T5
-1981 Kammback 2.5L Iron Duke T5

Restoration Efforts Near Completion:
-1982 SX4- 401 NV3550
-1983 SX4- 4.5 MPI NSG370 (6 Speed)

Restoration Efforts Underway:
-1985 SW- 4.0 MPI AX15
-1982 SX4- 4.0 AW4
-1981 SX4- SD33T NV4500 (Turbodiesel 5 speed)

Future Rescue Efforts- '85 Maroon SW, '87 Limited SW, '84 Limited SW, '87 4 door Sedan, '81 2 door Sedan, '88 White SW, '77 4 door Hornet, '74 2 door Hornet, '79 Spirit AMX, '81 Kammback.

RIP- Red '81 SX4, '84 4dr Sedan, '84 SW, '81 SW, '80 Spirit, '83 SW, '83 4dr Sedan

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2012, 09:17:59 PM »
The hydraulic system does have enough play to account for the difference in thickness but you will need to account for it with the length of your pushrod. A mechanical linkage from a CJ has a screw in adjustment to the length of the pushrod, so you could adapt one of those as a means of adjusting it, or you could experiment and find what works. I personally am not willing to deal with making it work, and there is a possibillity that it won't work.

I had a nightmare with my Spirit when I switched from 9" clutch to 10" clutch. It should work but it doesn't. The mechanical linkage didn't have quite enough adjustment. I'll never put my self through that again.

I do have an AX15 internal slave, NSG370 6 speed, and NV3550 external slave ready to install in an Eagle in my garage. My CJ8 Scrambler also has the Advanced Adaptors kit with T5 bellhousing, flywheel, clutch, and linkages with a NV3550 behind it. Any specific questions about them?

There are two types of 4.0 flywheels. The NSG370 CPS notches are clocked differently than the AX15 version, but its otherwise identical.

Nah, I'm going to stick with the AX15 for now. I think it is a good pairing for the 247xcase, and If I ever decide to get into crawling or anything, I can always go for the 242. I see no real point in getting an automatic for either of these setups.

My concern was that the thicker plate would accelerate wear in some fashion. But as you said, I have a manual so I should be fine.

My Sx4 is all registered and drivable for the moment. My next project will be swapping the head for a 4.0 and building an exhaust... But I dont have a shop anymore, so that has to wait.

Offline javelinman74

  • javelinman74
  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Thumbs Up 2
    • it's a 70s thing
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2013, 09:03:25 PM »
My T5 in the 82 Concord wagon crapped out again.

My question of need is I have a SR4 available and wondering IF that will bolt into the Concord where the T-5 lived, or is there enough of a difference that my mechanic shop will have too much to do to make it fit?

Its in the shop now...
Richard
javelinman74@hotmail.com
Thanks,
Richard
javelinman74@hotmail.com

Its an AMC thing...
      No one understands!

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2013, 12:47:56 PM »
The SR4 should be a direct bolt-on behind the 258 or the 2.5, assuming you have the proper bell-housing. You may be able to use the T5 bell-housing, but I dont know for sure.

Also, is your SR4 out of a 4X4? If so, it will have a tail-shaft housing set up to bolt onto a Xfer case. If it is a 2WD SR4, then you should be good.

Hopefully one of the other guys can chime in about this.

Offline Alcoatari

  • Eagle
  • **
  • Posts: 76
  • Thumbs Up 3
Re: AMC Manual Transmissions - General Info
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2013, 12:50:04 PM »
There is some good info at the beginning of this thread

http://forums.amceaglenest.com/index.php?topic=27.0

 

t5 manual, shift problem

Started by MortenB

Replies: 4
Views: 1230
Last post March 05, 2011, 03:01:54 AM
by MortenB
manual transmission fluid

Started by pradtf

Replies: 25
Views: 4720
Last post May 17, 2011, 09:18:24 PM
by IowaEagle
Recommended manual setup

Started by dakrisnit

Replies: 5
Views: 1022
Last post October 13, 2012, 10:42:19 AM
by BenM
manual tranny

Started by A-Haig

Replies: 29
Views: 14067
Last post May 28, 2013, 02:57:36 PM
by eaglefreek
auto to manual?

Started by shanebo

Replies: 2
Views: 824
Last post March 22, 2011, 11:35:20 PM
by shanebo