Author Topic: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?  (Read 5363 times)

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Offline OverKnight

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Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« on: January 15, 2012, 12:36:34 PM »
My son is going to purchase a 1986 Eagle that's about 90 miles away from here.  The current owner said he had a problem with the engine suddenly "cutting out", and noticed that the catalytic converter was red-hot.  To get home, he cut the converter out.  The pulse air pipe was also cut.  All of the exhaust components and converter seem to be readily available, but I'm not seeing the pulse air pipe.  Even if it I could find one right away, I think there's been some, ahem, modifications to where this pipe would connect to.

Our priority is to make the car drivable for 90 miles; once here, we can begin to sort everything out.  My initial plan was to purchase some flexible exhaust pipe, adapters and clamps to make a temporary connection between where the converter was cut off and the existing exhaust pipe (about 2.5').  However, this temporary repair was going cost about $40.00, so it might be most prudent to just purchase the complete system and install it before the trip back.

My questions are:
  • My understanding is that running a catalytic converter that is designed to use a pulse air system will overheat if run without it; is this correct?  Perhaps this is why the original converter overheated.
  • Does anyone know where I can obtain the pulse air pipe?
  • Can anyone provide detailed diagrams and details about the pulse air system?
  • Can anyone offer opinions on who makes good catalytic converters?  I've heard too many stories about cats lasting only a few thousand miles.

Thank you.
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Offline IowaEagle

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 12:42:08 PM »
I don't have pulse air or a converter.  Canadian cars were sold without converters.  They run just fine.
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Offline OverKnight

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2012, 01:09:20 PM »
Thank you.  Although I'm not positive about this, I believe New Jersey will sniff the tailpipe as a part of the state inspection, so I think we'll need to keep a converter in this car.

Anyone here familiar with New Jersey state inspections on 1986 Eagles?
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Offline eagleman

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2012, 01:10:30 PM »
Good question and can't wait to hear the answers.I also need to replace the entire exhaust system and would prefer to retain the stock exhaust so I will be following this thread intently.
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Offline IowaEagle

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2012, 01:17:15 PM »
Thank you.  Although I'm not positive about this, I believe New Jersey will sniff the tailpipe as a part of the state inspection, so I think we'll need to keep a converter in this car.

Anyone here familiar with New Jersey state inspections on 1986 Eagles?

You probably should replace the cat converter when you have the opportunity.

Which piece(s) of the pulse air system are you missing:

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Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
1970 Ambassador 2 Dr HT, SST
1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport;
2002 Hyundai Santa Fe;
2008 Jeep Patriot Sport - Freedom Drive II

Offline OverKnight

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2012, 01:34:15 PM »
Thank you for the diagram, Iowa.  This is all from memory, but I think the downstream pulse air tube (#20), is what was cut.  I couldn't clearly see where the front end of this tube was supposed to connect to; everything just seemed to be hanging loosely.  Everything might be there, but between the dirt/grease, unfamiliarity with this car and lack of a manual during inspection, I can't be sure.

Where does the upstream tube connect to?
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Offline IowaEagle

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2012, 01:38:32 PM »
Upstream goes to the exhaust (header) pipe; downstream to the converter.  Both also connect to the air cleaner.
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Not a Jeep.  Not a Car.  Its an AMC Eagle!

1982 Eagle SX/4 Sport;
1980 Concord DL;
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Offline OverKnight

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 02:09:04 PM »
Hmmm... no idea about the condition or existence of the upstream tube.
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Offline EAGLEYE

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2012, 11:03:10 PM »
usally when a converter gets "red" hot its not a faulty converter unless its clogged. its getting red because its burning up unburned fuel/fumes from the exhaust before it goes down stream and exit the tailpipe.so before you put another converter on. and take a chance burning.melting it up make sure you ignition/timing sys it correct.as far as the air inj tube that helps oxidize a dual bed converter.but it really should affect or damage a converter if not hooked up.so i guess if your planning on just getting it home .maybe just try to work with what you hav on it and when you get it home you can check out the timing and probably the fuel sys? as well .good luck!!

Offline shanebo

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2012, 11:42:05 PM »
Ive deleted the pulse air and cat on Eagles Ive owned in the past...just make sure you seal off any of the vaccum lines you remove and you wont ever notice its not there. I dont have emissions where I live so it was a no harm no foul kind of thing.
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Offline OverKnight

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 09:20:34 PM »
Thanks, EagleEye & Shanebo.  We'll probably spring for the temporary repair just to get the car up here.  I still haven't been able to find out if all of the emissions equipment are required in New Jersey on 26-year-old cars.  I know that if a car is registered and insured as a historic vehicle, state inspections are not required, but this car will be a driver.  Even if emissions equipment is not required, my inclination would be to restore most everything back to stock; anyone remember the air quality before catalytic converters?  This certainly was the dark ages for emissions controls, but even from this era, cars can be made to run well.
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Offline shanebo

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2012, 11:19:04 PM »
If you get the car running good and have a good carb and cat. you could probably do away with the pulse air system and be fine. Fuels thes days burn cleaner and if you have a modern cat. and a well tuned carb you should pass no problem. My car being an early 81 was pre pulse air and has the smog pump...all mine does, is it has hoses running into each port on the exhaust manifold and the pump forces air into the exhaust, essentially diluting the exhaust...it didnt prevent any smog what so ever.
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Offline ammachine390

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2012, 11:51:00 PM »
all mine does, is it has hoses running into each port on the exhaust manifold and the pump forces air into the exhaust, essentially diluting the exhaust...it didnt prevent any smog what so ever.

Not true. The point of the air pump was to burn any fuel that got into the exhaust (extra fuel that didn't burn in the engine), when hydrocarbons (evaporated gasoline) get into the atmosphere, it makes smog. The smog pump also makes your catalytic converter's job a little easier.
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Offline shanebo

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2012, 11:58:45 PM »
I stand corrected  ;D I always thought they just forced air in there to dilute the emissions...but it makes sense....Now I dont feel so bad leaving the pump on my car  ;D
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Offline carnuck

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2012, 02:47:22 PM »
I stand corrected  ;D I always thought they just forced air in there to dilute the emissions...but it makes sense....Now I dont feel so bad leaving the pump on my car  ;D
Before cats, that's exactly what the AIR system did. We did testing way back in the late '70s that proved the AIR system was hokum without a cat to feed. It thinned out the emissions so cars passed the sniff test, but they wasted more fuel doing so. You can eliminate the AIR rubbish if you get the correct anerobic aftermarket cat (Random Technologies used to sell them with a diagram that allowed even snotty CARB inspectors pass them)
FOR SALE
'87 Comanche 4.0L AW4/NP242 3.73 gears, lifted 5" on near new 33" tires $3500 obo
'82 Eagle Wagon (Brown Betty) 4.2L/727/NP229 and soon 8.25 rear axle and non-vacuum 3.08 front to match. 235/75/15 tires. It's down to minor body work (someone creamed my driver's door but I have another in good shape) almost rust free and interior work (seats are worn and carpet torn). $2000 but about to go up due to more work being done.

Pics of my other for sale stuff http://tinyurl.com/jimsclads

Offline ammachine390

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2012, 02:59:03 PM »
Before Cats, it still would have been used to burn the excess fuel in the exhaust. Since carbureted cars tended to run rich, there would be lots of hydrocarbons in the exhaust, that the AIR system would burn to prevent unburned hydrocarbons from entering the atmosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_air_injection
Dan
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Offline carnuck

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2012, 03:09:24 PM »
That was the claim back in the day.   :bs: :bs: :bs:
FOR SALE
'87 Comanche 4.0L AW4/NP242 3.73 gears, lifted 5" on near new 33" tires $3500 obo
'82 Eagle Wagon (Brown Betty) 4.2L/727/NP229 and soon 8.25 rear axle and non-vacuum 3.08 front to match. 235/75/15 tires. It's down to minor body work (someone creamed my driver's door but I have another in good shape) almost rust free and interior work (seats are worn and carpet torn). $2000 but about to go up due to more work being done.

Pics of my other for sale stuff http://tinyurl.com/jimsclads

Offline 68AMXGOPAC

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2012, 04:44:01 PM »
I stand corrected  ;D I always thought they just forced air in there to dilute the emissions...but it makes sense....Now I dont feel so bad leaving the pump on my car  ;D
Before cats, that's exactly what the AIR system did. We did testing way back in the late '70s that proved the AIR system was hokum without a cat to feed. It thinned out the emissions so cars passed the sniff test, but they wasted more fuel doing so. You can eliminate the AIR rubbish if you get the correct anerobic aftermarket cat (Random Technologies used to sell them with a diagram that allowed even snotty CARB inspectors pass them)
I think I would second that, because my 73 Javalin/AMX had the pump and had all those little tubes to each exhaust manifold runner, and no Cat.
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Offline BenM

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2012, 10:55:33 PM »
These guys have a bunch of the emissions parts you need if you need to pass tests. AMC used similar systems across the lineup.
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Offline jspeez13

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2012, 06:29:49 PM »
so is it safe to say that if you have the pulse ait system with the tubes running to the cat you can eliminate it if you get the right cat?  if so, what do you do with the remaining air pump parts?  should you keep the air pump connected to the exhaust manifold injection side? 

Offline carnuck

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Re: Temporary or Permanent Exhaust Repair?
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2012, 02:35:03 AM »
I stand corrected  ;D I always thought they just forced air in there to dilute the emissions...but it makes sense....Now I dont feel so bad leaving the pump on my car  ;D
Before cats, that's exactly what the AIR system did. We did testing way back in the late '70s that proved the AIR system was hokum without a cat to feed. It thinned out the emissions so cars passed the sniff test, but they wasted more fuel doing so. You can eliminate the AIR rubbish if you get the correct anerobic aftermarket cat (Random Technologies used to sell them with a diagram that allowed even snotty CARB inspectors pass them)
I think I would second that, because my 73 Javalin/AMX had the pump and had all those little tubes to each exhaust manifold runner, and no Cat.

Modern non-areobic (means it doesn't need and shouldn't have air pumped in) high flow cat, like the CA certified http://randomtechnology.com ones run cleaner, leaner with less back pressure and no loss of power due to AIR pump seizing up. (25 HP and higher loss as they start to seize from age. On my E150 van the motor stalled at 60 mph and I had to cut the belt to be able to drive it. Felt like a race car afterwards by comparision!)
FOR SALE
'87 Comanche 4.0L AW4/NP242 3.73 gears, lifted 5" on near new 33" tires $3500 obo
'82 Eagle Wagon (Brown Betty) 4.2L/727/NP229 and soon 8.25 rear axle and non-vacuum 3.08 front to match. 235/75/15 tires. It's down to minor body work (someone creamed my driver's door but I have another in good shape) almost rust free and interior work (seats are worn and carpet torn). $2000 but about to go up due to more work being done.

Pics of my other for sale stuff http://tinyurl.com/jimsclads

 

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